CIA John Kiriakou on Nuclear War, Vault 7 Tech, Mossad in Iran & Death Rituals | 356
Julian Dorey · 18 Nov 2025 · 3h 18m
Guest: John Kiriakou · Host: Joey Def, Julian Dorey
A former CIA officer returns for a wide-ranging conversation covering nuclear risk, Middle East politics, intelligence tradecraft, and government accountability. He discusses why every U.S. president resisted Israeli pressure to bomb Iran until Trump did it, and offers his own explanation for why that strike may have prevented something worse. He walks through Mossad recruitment tactics in Iran, Israel's undeclared nuclear arsenal, and the diplomatic fictions surrounding it. Much of the discussion turns to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: the untenable status quo in Gaza, why neighboring Arab states have historically abandoned Palestinian populations, the role of Christian Zionism, and skepticism that any current Israeli government could accept a real two-state deal. He also addresses domestic politics, defending the idea of talking to ideological opponents even controversial ones, criticizing bot-driven propaganda on all sides, and discussing the Justice Department's pursuit of his former boss John Brennan, including his ambivalence about wanting accountability without eroding rule-of-law norms. Later segments cover Vault 7 leaks and CIA hacking capabilities, the rise of Palantir and concerns about domestic surveillance overreach, oddities of intelligence bureaucracy and shell companies, and personal anecdotes about cemeteries, Greek death rituals, and CIA culture. The conversation blends geopolitical analysis with candid, sometimes irreverent personal stories from his career.
Ask this show a question Watch on YouTube
What comes up
Timestamps link into the episode on YouTube.
- Israeli pressure to bomb Iran
- Reunion banter and pardon jokes
- CIA analyst story about Iran and the Tunbs islands
- Mossad recruitment tactics in Iran
- Israel's undeclared nuclear weapons
- Regional politics: Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Palestinians
- Christian Zionism and Middle East religion
- Cemetery research and new book on DC graves
- Greek death rituals and ossuaries
- John Brennan investigation and rule of law
- India-Pakistan tensions and death threats
- Palantir, Peter Thiel and Alex Karp
Said on this episode
Quoted from the auto-generated transcript, which mishears names and technical terms. podcite.com reports what a show said; it does not endorse or fact-check it.
“With the law books filled with a great assortment of crimes, a prosecutor stands a fair chance of finding at least a technical violation of some act on the part of almost anyone.”
“It is against the law for the CIA to spy on Americans. Period.”
“I did this in my bedroom. What do you think China's doing?”