“Disaster!” - Cartel-Tracked CEO on (Legal) Drug 13x More Potent than MORPHINE | Ryan Niddel • 376
Julian Dorey · 23 Jan 2026 · 2h 49m
Guest: Ryan Niddel · Host: Joey Def, Julian Dorey
This conversation with Ryan Niddel, CEO of kratom manufacturer Diversified Botanics, traces how an obscure Southeast Asian leaf turned into a multibillion-dollar industry with almost no regulatory guardrails. Niddel walks through kratom's traditional use in Indonesia, the chaotic 2016 salmonella outbreak that nearly got it scheduled as a narcotic, and the deeper structural problem he sees in FDA/supplement law: there is no real pre-market approval pathway, so quality and safety depend entirely on which companies choose to test their own products. Much of the discussion centers on 7-hydroxymitragynine (7OH), an isolated kratom derivative he says is far more potent and addictive than the plant itself, and on the human cost he's tracked among people who became dependent on it after buying it in gas stations. He describes building out third-party testing, live video feeds, and a blockchain-based chain-of-custody system in response, and explains his shifting, uneasy position on whether 7OH should be banned outright or tightly regulated instead. Later the conversation turns strange: Niddel claims that after lobbying in Washington he was surveilled and possibly threatened by parties connected to a Mexican cartel, a Chinese chemical supplier, and Russian organized crime, all allegedly tied to money and influence flowing through the industry. It's a mix of regulatory policy detail, personal ethical reckoning, and unverified claims of being tailed for taking a stand on drug policy.
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What comes up
Timestamps link into the episode on YouTube.
- What kratom is and its history
- 2016 salmonella outbreak and DEA scheduling reversal
- Flaws in FDA supplement regulation
- Metragynine vs. 7-hydroxymitragynine (7OH) explained
- Addiction stories tied to 7OH products
- Wrongful death lawsuit and resulting safety changes
- Blockchain-based transparency system
- Alleged cartel, CCP, and Russian mob surveillance
- Vision for future kratom regulation
Said on this episode
Quoted from the auto-generated transcript, which mishears names and technical terms. podcite.com reports what a show said; it does not endorse or fact-check it.
“You've now built a customer for life. Anytime you have a chance to impact people's pocketbooks significantly, some people might not want that to happen.”
“I do not think you can overdose on 7 hydroxy.”
“We kind of have a sense of who it is. We were taking some pictures, run it through some intelligence, and it's the Synalone cartel following you.”