Secrets of the Freemasons, “Godfather” of Occultism & Epstein’s Strange Emails | Mark Gagnon • 366

Julian Dorey · 16 Dec 2025 · 2h 40m

Guest: Mark Gagnon  ·  Host: Joey Def, Julian Dorey

This conversation with comedian and content creator Mark Gagnon opens as freewheeling banter before settling into a long, winding tour through conspiracy culture, occultism, and internet politics. The two riff on Jeffrey Epstein's text exchanges with Congress members and his oddly garbled emails, treating them as both absurd comedy and evidence of a broader financial and intelligence entanglement that they suggest implicated far more people than just Epstein's inner circle. Gagnon walks through the life of Aleister Crowley in detail, covering his occult philosophy of Thelema, his sex magic rituals, his mountaineering, and the disputed claim that he pushed pro-German propaganda before World War I in a way meant to backfire on Germany. He pairs this with the story of psychic Edgar Cayce and touches on Nazi occultism, Himmler's Ahnenerbe, and Rudolf Hess's astrologer-driven flight to Scotland. The pair also work through remote viewing and Project Stargate claims, a Reddit account theory involving Ghislaine Maxwell, and Freemason history in America, including Prince Hall Freemasonry and Albert Pike. Threaded throughout is a running argument about the fractured Overton window, the dangers of tribal online rhetoric, and their shared preference for treating people's cultures and religions with curiosity rather than certainty. Extended comedic bits, including a food-guessing game and impressions, break up the more substantive discussion. The host and guest also talk about Gagnon's YouTube channels and his approach to comedy about religion and identity.

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“Documents recently released by the House Oversight Committee now show that Plaskett, a delegate of the Virgin Islands, and Epstein, a resident of the Virgin Islands, were coordinating in real time Plaskett's questioning of Trump's former fixer during the hearing.”

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“Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. So whatever you will is ultimately what is the supreme moral force that undergirds all of humanity.”

“The window is not shifting anymore. It's completely fractured. You got to get that guy in for a podcast.”

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