The Vatican, Demons & CREEPIEST Pastor in America | Religion Business • 340
Julian Dorey · 26 Sep 2025 · 3h 18m
Host: Joey Def, Julian Dorey
Two creators behind a long-running investigative documentary project called The Religion Business join the host to walk through how American Christianity became, in their telling, a financial enterprise operating with almost no oversight. They trace the mechanics that let anyone declare themselves a church and immediately start collecting money without IRS scrutiny, describe the 1960s 14-point checklist (born from a winery-church lawsuit involving the Salvation Army) that still defines what counts as a religious organization, and explain how that loophole lets everything from biker gangs to talent agencies register as churches. Much of the conversation centers on televangelist Kenneth Copeland: his private airstrip, unbuilt promised developments, and an on-camera confrontation with a content creator that ended with armed security and a drawn weapon. The guests argue that tithing was a cultural borrowing rather than a divine mandate, that most modern churches function as branded institutions divorced from what they call the actual 'ekklesia,' and that pastors exploit fear and vulnerability the same way multi-level marketing schemes do. Interwoven with the institutional critique are personal stories: a near-fatal ATV accident, military service and injury, alcohol and career struggles, and reflections on demons, energy, and near-death experiences. The episode closes with reactions to a same-day shooting and a stabbing, framed as symptoms of a broader loss of moral community.
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What comes up
Timestamps link into the episode on YouTube.
- Guests' backgrounds and near-death experiences
- Origins of The Religion Business project
- How anyone can legally start a 'church'
- The 14-point checklist and its 1960s origin
- Vatican formation and church power structure
- Financial transparency and the ECFA/Jim Bakker scandal
- Kenneth Copeland's empire and MLM comparison
- Definition of 'church' as institution vs. 'love dens'
- Personal faith journeys and military service
- Demons, energy, and spiritual experiences
- Confronting Copeland's compound with Tommy G
- Ongoing evidence: gun running, cartels, Cayman drops
Said on this episode
Quoted from the auto-generated transcript, which mishears names and technical terms. podcite.com reports what a show said; it does not endorse or fact-check it.
“So the Salvation Army became the blueprint for organized religion in the 60s.”
“You give to me because I am prosperous, which will make you prosperous. And if you don't give enough, it's because you got to give more.”
“We get evidence dumped on us daily. We've got stories of gun running from the Middle East on private jets.”